Questions about classes...

[Nebula]

OK, I am considering taking the Advanced Java class (I'm talking about session 2 here). I've already got the notepad program done. But, one of my friends isn't sure he can get into the advanced java class. He's considering the SysAdmin class, since some of the councelors say it's the most "fun" class.

My question: What do you mean by fun? I'd love to take either one, but I've been leaning towards the java class, since I love programming. Setting up networks could be helpful too...but still...

Which one is better?

[Stanley]

Well, for me, I would think that the Sys Admin class would be more fun, but then again, I think that setting servers and such is fun, mainly because of the hands on approach I have taken to learning about them.

If you like programming, then maybe think about doing the java class. If you really like java, then I say go for it. I myself do not like Java, so I probably wouldn't take it. But that's my two cents.

[GPeszek]

The cool thing about both classes is that they're both a "at your own pace" class. The advanced Java class most certainly will be open ended and the Sysadmin class has enough potential that anyone of any skill level will learn something new.

Personally, I'd say "Sysadmin", but thats because I might be teaching it :P

[Cjrules22]

Nebby, it is up to u to save my programmimg career, Â*http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

So all of the teachers and counselors like the SysAdmin class only because it's a new class and that they already know how to program.... right? -- i still don't fully understand everything that you would do in the SysAdmin class...

[Nebula]

Greg is teaching the SysAdmin class!?!?! FORGET JAVA!!!!!

http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

enh, I'd really like to take Advanced Java, but I just can't decide. Â*What exactly will we do in SysAdmin? Â*I mean, explain more than "we will be linking computers" and finding how servers work with clients, etc...will we be installing our own copies of NT Server & Workstation? Â*how many boxes will we be able to work with on our own?

I'd be thrilled to take either one. Â*I guess I'm just thinking Java, since I started it last year, and really like it. Â*I can also imagine continuing learning Java would be a lot easier at my house. Â*Programming doesn't really stop (unless you get bored), unlike the idea that my parents will think of letting me add another computer to our network, which was never there to start with. Â*oh well.

poop. Â*I'm super-1337 with computers, yet my parents don't think I need a new computer every year or two (they think every 2 or 3 is better). Â*How do I stay 1337 with a Pentium3?? Â*They did get a P4 laptop for the family a while ago, which I thought was cool, but I later realized you can't do anything processor-intensive on it, otherwise it catches fire (I'm almost not kidding). Â*You could cook an egg on this sucker after running any distributed client on here for 5 minutes. Â*heck, maybe 3. Â*I can't really tell, I don't want to burn my legs that bad http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Stanley]

</span>Quote[/b] ]I'm super-1337 with computers, yet my parents don't think I need a new computer every year or two (they think every 2 or 3 is better). Â*How do I stay 1337 with a Pentium3?? Â*<span =''>

I hate to show my age (*shivers*) but you don't need a new computer every 1 to two years. Even every 2-3 years is a bit much. If you're doing major engineering or design, then yeah, 2-3 years will work. But then, it is for work purposes. If it's for gaming, then you definetly do not need it. One word, two sylables: UPGRADE. Spend a couple hundred bucks on a new video board, add some memory. A whole new machine is a bit extreme.

&quot;leetness&quot; is not something that is determined by what your hardware is. Your hardware can be &quot;1337&quot; but it does not make you &quot;1337&quot; just because it's yours. I know plenty of people with &quot;1337&quot; rigs who are not &quot;1337&quot; themselves. I also know that one of the most &quot;1337&quot; human beings alive used to rock with a Pentium 233.

Also, being &quot;1337&quot; is like being &quot;cool.&quot; If you are truly &quot;1337&quot; you don't have to tell people, they already know. Just a few words of wisdom.

[GPeszek]

If you guys are terribly curious what (and mind you, this is just me rambling :P) the Sysadmin class is going to be about, here you go:

*DISCLAIMER: Â*The curriculum for this course has not been finalized at all. Â*The ideas and information here are just the topics, if I were to teach the class, the class would cover. Â*I make no promises about what actually happens *

1) Spend the first few days doing hardware refresher (ranging from &quot;This is a hard drive&quot; to &quot;lets take this hard drive apart&quot;)
Field trip: CAEN service center

2) Day or two to go over networking/internet basics: what exactly is ethernet, how TCP/IP works, routing (LAN and internet wide), advantages/disadvantages of different protocols (TCP/UDP v4 and v6, IPX/SPX , Appletalk, Novell, Netbios/Netbui) and physical network configurations (10baseT, 100baseT, 10base2, token ring, FDDI).
Field trip: Merit's Ann Arbor NOC (Network Operations Center), CAEN Machine Room

3) *Maybe* a day on operating systems and what pros/cons each holds. Â*Talk about some cool history of computing and how each OS got started

4) Now the real fun begins! Â*Each student/group of students would build a computer from parts, install different operating systems, learn how to configure network services (web, telnet, ftp, smb)

5) NETWORK 'em all together! Â*Set up the CampCAEN LAN, figure out common networking issues, etc

Ok, I'm done http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Â*If you guys have any input please let me know! Â*The sooner this class gets finalized the better.

[Nebula]

Stan: Thank you for your wisdom, I stand corrected http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Upgrading is possible, so I guess I'll get doing some research. Too bad you can't upgrade laptops much (or can you??). My parent's just don't think purchasing anything new (or upgrading) things isn't a good idea unless it's necessary. I'll see what I can do though.

Greg: hmm...I'd love the last part of it, as I already know how to build a comp, and what a HD is, and installing OSs, but I've always wanted to improve my networking knowledge and such. But...grr, I'm still not sure. I'll decide sooner or later http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Cjrules22]

Wow Stan, that was a very $uP3|2-1337 speech, Â*http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif .

Greg, thanks for more info about the SysAdmin class, it will help my decision a lot, Â*http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[wzoo1]

WOW!
I think I'll be DEFINETLY taking the networking/sysadmin class this summer after Greg's speech... lol...
Personally, I have a MUCH BIGGER intrest in networking than programming...
http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But then again, it's your own opinion Nebula...

[-D12-_LMN8R]

How can you be super-1337 at computers and not even know the hardware to use to upgrade them? *scratches head*

http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Talk to me on IMer or ICQ (dLMN8R or 25493940). I can help you find the cheapest yet most effective way to upgrade you computer. And if you say you have a Dell, there goes all the 1337ness right there http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Nebula]

nah...I'd rather get caught for buying pot than buy a Dell (like Steven)...&quot;Dude, your wallet's getting raped!&quot;

We've done Gateway in the past, but I've been seriously considering building my own for our next computer.

Basicially, all I'm looking for is a new Video Card (Radeon9000 possibly), and more RAM. Â*A new processor would be great, but hey, not terribly important. Â*I'm basicially looking to spend around $60-100 for a new graphics card. Â*Any help is appreciated. Â*Oh, yea, eBay is out of the question (my parents are against it. Â*Case closed http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif).

[Stanley]

Nebula,
i searched new egg for video cards in the 60-100 dollar price range. I got a lot of Geforce4 MX's and some ATI Radeon 9000. Jordan would probably know which is better off hand. I think the Radeon, but I'm not sure. According to the ATI site, it isn't DX9 compatible, but i don't think any of the cards in that price range are. What kind of card do you have now? As for the memory, that is the place to upgrade. The proportional gain on swapping the processor (without switching mobo) will not be that significant. Memory will have a more noticable affect. To get any kind of really tanagable gains from processor upgrades requires upgrading the mobo; and at that point, you might as well look at putting together a new machine. Granged if you want to get another year or two, you could buy a lower end P4 and mobo, which would increase your performance, but then it would really only be worth it to boost to twice what you have now (you said you have a Pentium 3 right?) I've made a bunch of upgrades to my machine over the past two and a half years, and in that time, I didn't upgrade my processor (and by that I mean added a second of the same speed) till I had already bumped up my ram to 512, bought a faster cd burner, and got a new graphics card.
Alright, that's my $.03

[Nebula]

I currently have a nVidia Riva TNT2 (this will be the one I'm upgrading). Â*It can run CS on an average of 40-50 FPS on 640x480x16. Â*Beyond CS, that's about it. Â*B&amp;W (which I don't play much anymore) was about 10FPS (2-3FPS when in motion) IIRC. Â*It almost hurt.

I have a Radeon Mobility M6 in my laptop, that I never get a chance to use, because if I do anything beyond thinking of booting up a game, it does it's imitation of my kitchen stove. Â*So I can't really tell you how well that does. Â*But it definately does better than my TNT2. Â*But that's pretty easy to beat.

I've heard good things about Radeon, but I'd rather get the best performance for my buck. Â*As for DX9-compatibility, I'm not there yet. Â*Basicially, I want to run CS at a resolution higher than 800x600, with high quality rendering, and elbow room for other games. Â*I'm not a big gamer, but I play CS occasionally.

As for RAM, I'll have to look into what kind I have, but I'm pretty sure it's PC133 SDRam (here's the page for it on Crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Gateway%2BPerforma nce+Series&mfr=Gateway&cat=RAM&model=Performance+733&submit=Go)). Â*Seems like RAM is really cheap these days ;) Â*I have 128MB in there right now, and I'd like to go to at *least* 256MB, but I'd love 384MB or 512MB. Â*I have 1 128MB DIMM in the tower currently, and I have two other DIMM slots open. Â*The Crucial page says I should only have 2 slots, but I'll send you a picture of my mobo if you want http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Â*512MB *is* my max RAM size.

Also, I've been looking at this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?sku=E400-T2200%20P) computer. Â*I'd really like a computer of my own (currently, we only have &quot;family&quot; computers). Â*I can't do anything to them without having my parents throw a fit (trying out Linux, Longhorn (just got M4 http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif), etc...). Â*Not to mention, they find ways to break them (files disappear, sound stopps working, IE breaks, etc...).

Boy, this thread sure has gotten offtopic http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Â*Does iKon support thread splitting?

[-D12-_LMN8R]

The GeForce 4 MX cards absolutely suck. Â*NEVER get them. Â*Forget about supporting DirectX 9 features, it doesn't even support DirectX 8 features. Â*It's a DX7 card all the way. The GeForce 3 cards are better, actually, the GF4mx is just a glorified GeForce 2.

The Radeon 9000, on the other hand, is a DX9 card. Â*Yes, it's 9. Â*It's pretty much the best card you can find in that price range.

If you up the price range to $120 or so, get a GeForce 4 Ti4200 64 meg card.

If you ask me, the card that will last for the longest time and take the least chunk out of your budget is the ATI Radeon 9500 Pro. Â*For $170-180, you get a card as fast as the GeForce 4 Ti4600 at normal settings, and if you turn on features like Anisitropic Filtering (gets rid of the jaggies) and/or Anisotropic Filtering (drasticaly improves texture quality), the 9500 Pro absolutely blows the Ti4600 out of the water, hand down. Â*Keep in mind the Ti4600 is around $220 still, and the 9500 Pro is $180.

But if you're seriously only gonna be playing Counter-Strike and a few other games, the 9000 is your best bet. Â*Just remember it won't last you long at all, and by next year, you'd have to spend even more money to play a game. Â*Get a 9500 Pro and it'll last you for 2-3 years probably.

If you want a new motherboard and processor, you'd be spending $150-200 or so. Â*Also, if you only use SD ram right now, you'd want to buy some DDR ram to put in the new mobo (you can get 256 megs of PC2100 DDR ram from Newegg for under $40 now!!!!!!)

Overall, if you upgraded that, you'd spend around $110 on a good mobo, or you can get a decent one for around $70. Â*Then an Athlon XP 2200+ is $117 at Newegg, a 1700+ is only $68 :-o



If you need any more help feel free to ask, and I'll answer as best I can Â*http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wzoo1]

Yea I was thinking about building my own computer also anyways. My brithday is coming up within a couple of days and I'm getting more $$$ from my parents soo... http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I'm defeintly going with AMD because of their CHEAP processors, and maybe DDR ram, I'd like to have
*AT LEAST* 256MB of ram but 384 or 512 would be sweet!
I guess once I get my PC built I'll load some other OS's to play with... I already have Red Hat Linux v8, WinXP Pro and Longhorn M4 (I just got it, can't wait to install a M$ alpha OS LOL!)
I have about $500-550 to build my PC so what do you guys suggest?
Like nebula, we're currently on family computers and I personally HATE it...
For the video card... Maybe later... Since this is my first OWN computer, I think a GeForce2 or 3 will be fine for me currently and maybe upgrade to a GeforceFX or ATI card once I get the $$$.

And about DX9 capability, some ATI Radeons like the 9800 Pro is compatible because they just came out... and about the GeForce4 cards... THEY ABSOLUTLY SUCK... They don't support DX9, etc...

For the current (family desktop, dell, don't ask... that we have) anyways...
The geforce2 32mb mx runs fine for CS @ 1024x768, etc(I can get high resolutions with it...) but runs some of the newest games like C &amp; C generals sometimes runs REALLY SLOW including load times, rendering, etc.

I can do Ebay (through my parents account...), Newegg (my dad actually likes the site, lots of cheap stuff...) , etc... For cheap prices on like everything I recommend you guys check out http://www.pricewatch.com (they do price comparisons on almost all hardware...)

On the CC2003 side, I will probably be taking the sysadmin class in session 2 since it's gonna be SWEET! (personally I'm more intresting in linking computers with NeTwOrkS than programming but that's just me...)

http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Any other opinions on building my computer...?

WillZZZ

[Nebula]

hmm...I've got plenty of ideas for upgrading now...yay! http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But for now, I think I'll just keep doing chores, building up money. I could even (*groan*) try to work in the summer.

As for the Radeon 9000 vs. 9500, I'm not terribly sure. The 9500 is $50 more (in the prices I looked at). As for DX9 support...well...I'm not entirely sure how helpful it'll be, as I'm not one of those people who are always playing the most recent games and such. But still, you're probably right about having room to grow into. I'll save up money, and hopefully have enough for a new computer (or at least major upgrades) around camp time (session 2 of course) http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Stanley]

Ok, the difference between the 9000 and 9500 (well, 9200 and 9600) is in fact the support of DirectX 9. I hate to say this, but Tom's Hardware, As well as ATI both talk about the 9000 being just pumped up 8500 cores. So, if you're looking forward to buying a computer, and this just being a tide over, i say go with the 9000. It sounds like you'd have to upgrade your processor to meet minimum specs for any game that will use directx 9 anyway.

[Nebula]

excellent point Stan. Â*But what do you mean 9200 and 9600? (are those actual products??)

[Cjrules22]

</span>Quote[/b] ]Nebula: Â*Hey stan, remember the kids who shined lazers in people's eyes, and shoved &quot;worms&quot; CDs under the door?? and stayed up LATE? http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif<span =''>
Oops, i don't Â*think i was suppose to post that. Â*Well Nebula, you certainly are very 1337. Â*You somehow manage to translate the horrible java forums. Â*You're even starting up Jeff's Programming Tutorials ®.


</span>Quote[/b] ]Stan: &quot;leetness&quot; is not something that is determined by what your hardware is. <span =''>

Sorry Stan, but I got a PimPin computer and Im pretty sure that it made me 1337. No pseudo-intellectual is complete without his kick ass comp.

</span>Quote[/b] ]Stan: Also, being &quot;1337&quot; is like being &quot;cool.&quot; If you are truly &quot;1337&quot; you don't have to tell people, they already know. <span =''>

Wrong again! Â*If you're 0wning n00b's in CS, they are gonna think that you are 1337 by using terms like 1337 and saying that you are 1337. Being coherent is overrated.

http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif I can't believe how much I rule. http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Stupid kids tried stepping to my 1337 skills and got 0wned.
For more about how much i rule ---> http://maddox.xmission.com
http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif [the best page in the universe] http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Stanley]

</span>Quote[/b] ]excellent point Stan. But what do you mean 9200 and 9600? (are those actual products??) <span =''>
Yup, brand new products. Ati is also about to release the 9800. Upgraded versions of the older models. The 9600 is ATI's first chip with a .13 micron core. Ultimatly, they are putting these out to make nVidia remember that the FX is pretty much a failure in terms of pushing nVidia back on top.

As for CJ, I'm not even going to start.

[Nebula]

</span>Quote[/b] (Stanley @ Mar. 06 2003,23:55)]As for CJ, I'm not even going to start.<span =''>
LOL! http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Â*Good idea Stan http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Â*He was up late when he posted that, so don't hold it (completely) against him http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

</span>Quote[/b] (Stanley @ Mar. 06 2003,23:55)]Yup, brand new products. Ati is also about to release the 9800. Upgraded versions of the older models. The 9600 is ATI's first chip with a .13 micron core.<span =''>

When are the 9200 and 9600 expected to be released? Â*And are they just &quot;pumped up&quot; 9000s and 9500s? Â*Or do they have a significant new feature? Â*And what's the estimated price? Â*(sorry for asking, I'm too lazy to look it up).

[GPeszek]

Back to the topic at hand:

Its official! Â*I'll be instructing the System Admin class this year http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Nebula]

w00t!

has the advanced java teacher been assigned?

[wzoo1]

w00t! Excellent... http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jyorke]

</span>Quote[/b] (Nebula @ Mar. 08 2003,09:19)]has the advanced java teacher been assigned?<span =''>
That would be me

[Nebula]

hey, that's cool. Â*Now, my last question...WHEN DOES CAMP START!?!?!? http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

just kidding, I know when it starts. Â*BUT IT'S NOT SOON ENOUGH.

Also, I want to sign up for camp today...but when we sign up...will we be held to our decision, or can we think about it and change later?

EDIT for clarification: When I say later, I mean when we actually get to camp, and actually see them.

[Xtraneous]

</span>Quote[/b] (-D12-_LMN8R @ Mar. 05 2003,22:14)]The GeForce 4 MX cards absolutely suck. Â*NEVER get them. Â*Forget about supporting DirectX 9 features, it doesn't even support DirectX 8 features. Â*It's a DX7 card all the way. The GeForce 3 cards are better, actually, the GF4mx is just a glorified GeForce 2.

The Radeon 9000, on the other hand, is a DX9 card. Â*Yes, it's 9. Â*It's pretty much the best card you can find in that price range.

If you up the price range to $120 or so, get a GeForce 4 Ti4200 64 meg card.

If you ask me, the card that will last for the longest time and take the least chunk out of your budget is the ATI Radeon 9500 Pro. Â*For $170-180, you get a card as fast as the GeForce 4 Ti4600 at normal settings, and if you turn on features like Anisitropic Filtering (gets rid of the jaggies) and/or Anisotropic Filtering (drasticaly improves texture quality), the 9500 Pro absolutely blows the Ti4600 out of the water, hand down. Â*Keep in mind the Ti4600 is around $220 still, and the 9500 Pro is $180.

But if you're seriously only gonna be playing Counter-Strike and a few other games, the 9000 is your best bet. Â*Just remember it won't last you long at all, and by next year, you'd have to spend even more money to play a game. Â*Get a 9500 Pro and it'll last you for 2-3 years probably.

If you want a new motherboard and processor, you'd be spending $150-200 or so. Â*Also, if you only use SD ram right now, you'd want to buy some DDR ram to put in the new mobo (you can get 256 megs of PC2100 DDR ram from Newegg for under $40 now!!!!!!)

Overall, if you upgraded that, you'd spend around $110 on a good mobo, or you can get a decent one for around $70. Â*Then an Athlon XP 2200+ is $117 at Newegg, a 1700+ is only $68 :-o



If you need any more help feel free to ask, and I'll answer as best I can Â*http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif<span =''>
You found a Radeon 9500 pro in stock for 180? Â*Where!

I am ordering my parts for my new system on monday. Â*This (expensive) puppy will rock!

When one does not do the standard harware upgrade cycle, and saves their money, (and makes money by doing comp work for other people,) one can make a truly kick-4$$ rig...

--Dov

[-D12-_LMN8R]

Right here:

http://www.newegg.com/app....&depa=0 (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduct.asp?description=14-102-258&depa=0)


$181, Saphire Radeon 9500 Pro, in stock, FREE shipping!!


Newegg owns you.

[Xtraneous]

I have never heard of saphire... who are they?

Are there any differences between the standard Radeon 9500pro, and the Saphire version... (IE- must use Saphire drivers rather than ATI drivers?)

--Dov

EDIT: Newegg owns All! Great prices, awesome cust service, and they have just about everything imaginable!

[-D12-_LMN8R]

I've read about Saphire since the original 9700 Pro came out, and they're very reliable. I've never had a Saphire card, considering I have a Ti4600 and upgrading to any ATI card from what I have now would be absolutely useless, but many people on many message boards I've talked to have said they got Saphire cards and are extremely happy with them.

Basically, what you're looking at is the difference between &quot;Powered by ATI&quot; and &quot;Built by ATI.&quot;

If you look at it this way - all GeForce cards are Powered by NVidia, but none of them are *built* by NVidia. NVidia just designs the chips that MSI, Asus, etc. use in the cards that they sell. ATI, on the other hand, does both. They create their own cards with the chips the develop, but also sell the chips to companies such as Saphire to create their own with.

The card I linked you to is Powered by ATI, but the specs are the exact same as the Built by ATI card. Overall, Saphire is easily one of the most reliable companies that I've read about that builds cards with ATI chips in them. You can't go wrong with them!

[-D12-_LMN8R]

Oh yea, also, you'll be able to use any ATI drivers with the Saphire card, just as I can use the NVidia detonator drivers with my MSI GeForce 4 Ti4600.

[Black Mage]

Does anyone know who's going to be teaching Intro to C++ and Web Design in Session 1?

[GPeszek]

The Intro to C++ and Intro to Web Design will have a few different instructors for the different skill levels. I know that I will be teaching the morning programing and afternoon web for 1st and 3rd session (2nd I'm tied up with the Sys Admin class).

[krishogu]

hey i can still log in http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif sweet.
just saying hi to everyone, and i'll be visiting camp in the summer since i live in a2 and i'm not working for camp this year. don't worry, i'll bring more fun when i come visit ;) camp's not camp without me ;) ;) haha jk
~krisnine
(goddess)

[jyorke]

</span>Quote[/b] (krishogu @ Mar. 12 2003,20:11)]hey i can still log in http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif sweet.
just saying hi to everyone, and i'll be visiting camp in the summer since i live in a2 and i'm not working for camp this year. don't worry, i'll bring more fun when i come visit ;) camp's not camp without me ;) ;) haha jk
~krisnine
(goddess)<span =''>
KWIS! Looking forward to it ;)

[Ops]

Dammit, Greg's post just made my decision a lot harder. In 6th grade I spent 2 hours every day maintaining a network of 600 macintoshes with 4 dedicated server and a tape backup drive so I figured that this class wouldn't teach me much more, and I was going to take the PHP class. But the most I've ever done with hardware is basic installation, not repair. That sounds really cool! And learning new network protocols sounds great, and I do need to learn how to network non-macs. AAAARGH.