Yet another mac thread....prices....

[-D12-_LMN8R]

I felt this deserves its own topic simply because of how appalled I am at Apple

Stan and some other people may find this interesting. Â*My brother just graduated with a degree in Telecommunications, focus in film editing, and is looking for a computer to suit that. Â*Of course he'd WANT to go with a PC, except for the simple fact that Final Cut Pro isn't available for PC - and that's the best out there.

So I was looking around, and realized these few things while talking with my brother about the PowerMac G4s:

They charge $300 for each stick of 512 megs of PC2700 DDR ram. Â*You can buy this at www.newegg.com for $115 each.

They charge $350 for a 120gig 7200rpm hard drive, 2 meg cache. Â*You can get a 120gig 7200rpm Western Digital with an 8 meg cache - drastically improving speed - for $156



Here's the best part:
The default setting for the video card is a Radeon 9000 (that's not the bad part, it's a decent card)

You can buy a Radeon 9000 for $90 from www.newegg.com.

If you go DOWN to a GeForce 4 MX on Apple's , they subtract $100
That can only mean that they're charging at least $140 or so for a $90 video card.

The best part?

if you go up to a GeForce "Ti series" (no model specified), they ADD $250, CHARGING NEARLY $400 FOR A $220 VIDEO CARD


They charge $1000 for each 17" flat panel, when you can get what Tom's Hardware calls The best 17" LCD screen that we have tested so far. (http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20030109/index.html) for $650 each. Â*The Mac flat panels look cool, but the display quality wouldn't be nearly as good as this one.




You may say "you don't need a PC", or "Mac OSX is so easy to use", or "there are tons of games on Mac....gaming is no longer a limitation", or anything else, but the simple fact is:

IF YOU'RE NOT DOING VIDEO EDITING OR SOMETHING CLOSE TO THAT, A MAC IS AN ABSOLUTE RIP-OFF FOR YOU TO GET

I thought that Macs were making a comeback with their awesome style and easy-to-use OS. Â*Turns out they rip their customers off more than Alienware, heck, even FalconPC


Overall, if he got exactly what he wanted (dual 1.25GHz Mac processors, 2 gigs of ram, 2 120gig hard drives, 2 17" flat panels, etc. etc.), it would cost over $8000 from Apple - not gonna happen. However, with the exact same hardware configuration for a PC, including a P4 3.06GHz with hyper-threading, 2 120 gig WD on RAID 0, Radeon 9700 Pro, etc etc, it would cost $4400!!!!

(That includes $1000 for Final Cut Pro)

Disgusting......anyway, thought I'd just let you know.

[GPeszek]

Oh, but its so much more convenient!

Phbbtt *thumbs down* Give me a cheaper Wintel machine that I can play CS on any day.

[Stanley]

Yeah, money....well. As I told one of my friends, I would love to have a mac, but i can't afford it. Hopefully this summer I will be. Otherwise, it's more saving up and me. But then again, I can justify the cash for a powerbook. Now if only to justify the raid array i want.

i got macs and pcs
macs are worth the money, most of my friends spend the extra money they saved buying the wintel just for the repairs and stuff, which i've never had to do. btw Jaguar hasn't crashed on on 3 computers ive had it on since a month after it came out.

windows = 8-bit os, 24 STAGE pipeline (steps taken to perform a task)
mac = 64-bit os, 7 stage pipeline


sure they are more expensive, but the added costs for extras includes the installation fee (they wont ship both seperately for u to install)

i've owned both macs and pcs, and i made a fair decision that macs are much better; i suggest that you guys try it too, you'll see the difference for sure


laterz,
b
a
z

[-D12-_LMN8R]

If you think paying double is worth a few extra features, fine by me.

I've had my WinXP machine on for weeks at a time with no slowdown or crashing or problems. I always have a ton running - Trillian, Norton, Kazaa sometimes, mIRC sometimes, not to mention running a bunch of games, and I get no problems.

Who cares about the low-level archetecture of the processors if on the outside my Athlon 2200+ at just over $100 completely beats out any Mac in which you'd be easily paying over $200 for fastest (1.25GHz) processor? Mac processors may be faster, but not enough to warrent the price difference.

I don't want to pay extra for installation. You flip a level, drop it in the socket, put on the heat sink, plug it in, you're done. Not worth $50-100 in my book.

[Stanley]

I think it's interesting that I asked the question about getting a mac laptop or desktop, and i've sparked the age old, Mac vs. PC debate. As always the key issues have come down to the following:

1. Macs are more expensive
2. PC's Hardware is faster (let's not kid ourselves about this)
3. Mac OS X and Windows XP are both stable
4. Mac OS X is more optimized (they make the hardware and the software, it's to be expected)
5. PC's have more game (and software) support
6. Mac Laptop's are very very cool (even jordan admits this http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif)
7. Mac's are better suited for graphic design
8. PC's are ridiculously overpowered for the typical user
9. You can piece together cheap PC's

So where does this leave us? Well, in the end, you can't say either system is better than the other overall. It's like comparing Mercedes Benzs and BMW's. It really comes down to a few a things, namely what you plan to do, and personal style. The key is which ever system is better for you.

How to tell that a Mac is good for you.

1. You do a lot of Computer Graphic work and Graphic Design
2. You spend most of your time chatting and writing papers (basic day to day)
3. You could care less about gaming and what's hot
4. You're tired of dealing with Windows but need certain pieces of Commercial Software

How to tell that a PC is good for you

1. You have very little money
2. Gaming is important to you
3. You want to tinker with your hardware
4. You want develop applications for Windows users
5. Your name is Greg Peszek


Alright, seems simple enough. If you don't play games and do/have interest in Computer Graphics and Design (like me) get a mac. If you're addicted to gaming (like Greg and Jordan) or poor (like Justin) then get a PC. See, isn't that simple. Personally, I look forward to having at least one of each (3 pc's and mac), that way I can use the right tool for what I'm doing. Alright, Party on.

[GPeszek]

Putting numbers next to poor points doesn't make them good points, Stan. Â*Here is how to put numbers next to good points:

1.) PCs are better (http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews/2003-01/2003_01_07_macpc.html) (again (http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.htm), again (http://www.techtv.com/products/print/0,23102,3339307,00.html), and again (http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/17095.html)) at digital photography and graphics.
2.) Why is that a plus for Macs?
3.) Why is that a plus for Macs? (ooh, dejavu)
4.) Tired of dealing with Windows. Â*Thats like saying "Tired of dealing with Ford because you don't know how to maintain it? Â*Get a GM car!"

There has not yet been one valid, logical argument as to why a Mac is better.

[Ops]

javascript:emoticon('http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif') Jesus Christ guys. This is completly not worth arguing. Here's why:

A) We already know he IS getting an apple laptop. Satisfies Apple fanatic's needs.
B) We already know he has 3 PC's. Satifies PC zealot's needs.
C) Macintoshes and PC's are nearly incomparable. They're so impossibly different that any numerical comparisons simply don't apply.
D) Throughout the world today both macintoshes and PC's are acceptable for any use.
E) There is no 'better' OS in general. Each person must make their own decision on whether to run Mac OS Classic, Win XP, Mac OS X, Unix, Linux, Solaris, Win 200 Professional etc. Most people simply prefer what they are used to, like music.
F) The mac-vs-pc argument has been argued for decades and will continue so. Let's leave it to the countless n00bs of the world to continue it for us, as it will never end anyways and we can spend our talents and energy on more fuitful and proseperous undertakings.
G) ********This has been edited out to save the lives of countless n00bs.
--Department of Homeland Security

Especially taking into account statement G, lets all remove ourselves from this debate and move on to better things.

[GPeszek]

Too bad its ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMIN$

<span style='color:green'>$$ BLING BLING $$</span>

[-D12-_LMN8R]

lol, this wasn't another thread to try to convince Stan to buy a PC, he IS getting a laptop after all http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It was a thread to advise other people.

[Cyram]

Every year, a new mac vs. PC debate.

Where I currently work, I've found that it's really annoying to work on a network with both macs and pcs. I currently work at a place with 600+ computer stations. The entire marketing department is on macs and we have to make special considerations when changing something on the network. In fact, we just got them a mac rackmount (yes, rackmount) server so we can further separate them from the rest of the UNIX and Windows network.

Personally, I still find that each OS has its unique advantages and disadvantages. I'm indifferent, but must admit to being pretty set with windows 2000. I'm not changing anytime soon. http://campcaen.engin.umich.edu/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Stanley]

Greg, obviously you don't read what I write. I never said anything about pluses. Just ways you could tell. As for your websites, i suggest you read the articles, greg. All they say is that pc's are faster. Faster is not always better (and dreamworks uses the intel platform running custem stuff under linux for 3d rendering which is not the end all in graphics design). Personally, I prefer using Macs for graphics design, as do a lot of other people in design. As for points 2 and 3, if you don't interpret them as pluses, but just reasons that a mac would probably work for you (there is a difference), then you see that, &quot;hey, i don't play games, i don't need the fastest hardware&quot; it's not a plus, just saying that a mac would probably work for you.
Finally, about point number 4, lemme tell ya greg, I keep my machine in good shape. I don't install a lot stuff, i keep the hd clean of useless files and defrag. So i know how to run it. That being said, the fact that explorer crashes because it's trying to cache every image in a directory is not my problem. It is not my problem that window gets upset when I am working with 5900 x 2900 pixel images (and don't say it's ram cause i have 512 megs of the stuff).

At the same time, Greg and Jordan have brought up good points. The thought of shelling out 2000+ dollars for a laptop does seem insane to me. PC's are definetly a more econimcal. And if you want to play games, God help you if you have a Mac. Finally, I'm not going to lie, at this point, PC's are definetly faster. It's why Apple started packaging dual processor desktops, they couldn't compete with the speed of the PC's. This is just fact. Do my parents need a 3.1 ghz computer to surf the web and write papers, no, do Greg and Jordan and a lot of other gamers, yes. So power is important (Graphics People can get away with both, mainly becuase Adobe optimizes the bejesus out of their products on the Mac side). Do I wish I could get GTA3 for Mac, yeah. Do I like the fact that Apple makes you very dependent on their software due to lack of development, HELLS NO. If it weren't for the fact that I'm probably getting a laptop, I'd be pissed about not having remote desktop. And don't get me started about finding upgrade hardware for the damn things. Anyway, what ever computer you use comes down to style.

</span>Quote[/b] ]There has not yet been one valid, logical argument as to why a Mac is better.
<span =''>
Only to you, Greg, only to you.

Personally, I gree with matt, each OS does have unique advantages and disadvantages. And it really is a matter of personal style about what you use. It's also what you want to do. There is no better. There is a faster; there is a more expensive; there is an easier. There isn't a better, there isn't right way, or a wrong way. I hope i spelled this out clearly enouugh.

If you want, feel free to ignore everything I said and continue this arguement. This will most likely be my last posting on the subject (barring any ridiculous statements). If you want to sound like a mindless zealot, feel free to shout &quot;Macs are Better&quot; at the top of your lungs. If you want to sound like a slave to Intel and the game companies, feel free to shout &quot;Macs suck, PC's are better.&quot; If you want to be Greg, you can shout, &quot;Stan, you're an idiot&quot; as loud as you want. It's your 1st Amendment right.

[-D12-_LMN8R]

I absolutely agree. As I said here or somewhere else, if it was possible to custom-build a mac, or if they were cheaper, I would get one in the future simply because they're so darn cool and elegant.